Friday, December 5, 2014

GM_Solspiral's Undated Guide to the Cavalier: Archetypes and Multiclassing

Archetypes

There’s a few awesome options and a few head scratchers. In general the things I look for are:

-Either upgrade the mount or enhance it in some manner, or if it is replaced it is replaced with more awesomesauce.

-I LOVE the tactician ability. If I’m losing it and my teamwork feat the replacement needs to be super sexy.

-Banner is meh to me, replacing it is fine.

-I’ll strongly consider not taking an archetype that keeps mount but takes away expert trainer if I intend to multiclass.


Beast Rider trades heavy armor and expert trainer for a really nice mount upgrade that continues to upgrade at 4th and 7th levels. Really solid choice. The expert trainer hurts if you want to multi though and if you start with a rideable AC from another class most GMs are likely to let them stack rather than deal with 2 ACs. 

Castellan as it is designed this kinda sucks, combine it with one of the races that gives you flight (check with your GM that they rule flying as high ground) take fly-by-attack and a reach weapon and this becomes really good. Be sure to take an AC that also flies off the Ranger list and get the boon companion feat. 

Charger a good not great option for a Centaur, but absolutely not the only good option so niche.

Circuit Judge just dip into or play an Inquisitor since you’re replacing most of your good Cavalier abilities for judgement. 

Constable want to trade your mount for Improved Unarmed strike and a bonus to perception checks? It starts that bad and doesn’t improve much.

Courtly Knight want to trade a feat and the ability to use it as a buff for scaling skill bonuses and a niche AF verbal dual benefit? Who hurt you?

Daring Champion is pretty much your best Paizo option if you do not want a mount, if however you can do Shield Maiden or Briar Knight they are both better but I’m a bit biased.

Daring General if your GM hates the Leadership feat butallows this because no magic users ok then this is moderately useful otherwise I’d just take the frakin’ leadership feat and get myself a buffing cleric cohort to heal and buff my cavalier. 

Disciple of the Pike you’re trading all of your mount abilities and banner but getting amazing bonuses if you wanted to go with a reach weapon. This is very good with a flying race and even a 3 level dip in this would be awesome for a reach cleric build. 

Dune Drifter if you wanted a gun but don’t want to be wisdom based multiclass into gunslinger with the mysterious stranger archetype for like 5 levels or do Cavalier for like 4 levels to get expert trainer and be human. It’s massively better than doing this.

Drake Rider you’re trading a lot to get a customizable dragon buddy but it’s as close to the Legend of Huma cover art you’re going to actually be able to PLAY.

Emissary you gain things you can gain in other ways and lose things you cannot gain in other ways.

Esquire so a straight downgrade if you start at 1st level, otherwise this is pretty much trade a mount for a flanking warrior buddy starting at 3rd level. Technically this is an upgrade but you’re basically playing 2 characters and equipping 2 characters and all the things that entails but they also are pretty similar people so from a player standpoint yay I get to play an NPC… meh

Fell Rider is amazing. I just wish it came with mount options. If you’re GM lets ACs from other classes stack in the mount levels as long as the beast is rideable do this with a Bull/Yak/Oxen 

First Mother’s Fang I’d consider the mount change an upgrade, the skills and weapon profs get straight up upgrades, then you get an upgrade to the order ability. Snake knights are pretty rad.

Gallant okay so let’s start by being more restrictive for no benefit ohhhkay what do we replace banner which is meh with an equally meh replacement ability then an actually good ability but it comes in at like 14th level. TRASH.

Gendarme be less versatile for no good reason

Ghost Rider it’s neat and combine it with being a Dhampir and get your GM to rule you both heal by negative energy and it would be a seriously rule of cool option I’d consider with some neutral cleric dipping.

Green Knight I really wanted to rate this green but it’s just not very good. If you want Diehard play a half orc.

Herald Squire takes out some of the best parts of being a cavalier, no dice

Honor Guard another spellcaster’s cohort

Hooded Knight I loath giving up tacticial but they fey touched mount and the 9th level Dimensional door abilities are super freaking cool and worth the trade.

(Qadirian) Horselord ok if you wanted to make a dex/dervish build but if you’re doing that why cavalier?

Huntmaster it is a really good trade low-mid levels a sad mistake in high level play. 

Hussar trade most of your combat bonuses for skill bonuses and all your bonus feats. I genuinely wonder if this was designed by someone who has ever played the game.

Knight of Arnisant this is similar to my own Shield Maiden archetype but trades things other than the mount and has a little less power than Shield Maiden does earlier and loses tactician but it gets the mount. Preference wise I favor my own but I could see picking this.

Luring Cavalier Cavalier’s aren’t great archers, if you are hell bent on this path this is for you.

Musketeer dune drifter does it better

Oceanrider boringly obvious design for the aquatic campaigns that I suspect maybe 3% of us have ever played outside a one shot.

Outrider (Lashunta) basically this is a decent teamwork focused archetype.

Saurian Champion you’re trading a ton to ride a dinosaur which still nets positive right up until you have to do a dungeon crawl. Drakerider does it better.

Sister in Arms this trades mount and tactician for getting 2 sets of order abilities that are about an even trade if you want to be teamwork savvy. I don’t like the trade but don’t blame you if you do like it.

Standard Bearer great way to get banner instead of mount for a cavalier dip, for a standard cavalier this is not a good option.

Strategist improves cavalier’s best abilities, swaps one of the worst.

Verdant If you want to play a vine leshy this is awesomesauce

Vermin Tamer I know a gal with a gecko and she’d not take kindly to it being classified as a vermin. This is okay but kind of uninspired. My co-owner and GM made  a little better version of this idea a few years back for a gripli character I played called the Chitin Rider. I’ll link the page.

Wave Rider not an aqua campaign? red, aqua campaign? Blue


Flying Pincushion Archetypes I’m linking as a gift. I love all of these of course and have played all 3.

Briar Knight

Chitin Rider

Shield Maiden





Multi-classing

Thanks largely to boon companion you can dip up to 4 levels in a full bab or ¾ bab class with little to no pain, there are some truly solid options that reward you for doing so. The Horse master Feat (got to have 6 levels of ride and Expert trainer) means you can safely exit Cavalier at 6th level and pursue another class entirely without losing any momentum with your Mount. This is an amazing help for multi-classers.


Generally your want:

-A way to start with a more powerful companion (hunter, ranger, druid, sorceress)

-To lose as little BAB as possible

-Possibly a good spell list you can wand (wizard, cleric, hunter)

-Help on weak saves (Cleric, wizard)

-More class skills (Rogue, Ranger, Vigilante)

-Faster feat progression or a better damage output (Barbarian, Ranger, Vigilante)

Look for archetypes that swap attributes to Cha like the gunslinger’s Mysterous Stranger or UnMonk’s Scaled Fist.


UnBarbarian- solid option if you want a damage upgrade and lose no BAB. The rage powers you gain usually trump feats and you get a few bonus goodies to boot. There’s some rage power that give your mount rage as well, which is particularly gross with some of the alternate mount options.

Bard - For 1 BAB and a feat you get to be even more of a team player than a normal cavalier, gain a boatload of skill points and class skills, some ok spells, and shore up your 2 weak saves. It is a solid option

Cleric - for a 1 level dip you can gain 2 domain powers worth way more than that feat, for 3 levels you can self buff a bunch as well. You’re a little more MAD but not overly much.

Druid - I love druids but you’re way too into metal for this to work, unless you’re gonna be a Briar Knight.

Fighter- only reason to bother is weapon specialization.

UnMonk- basically add an extra fighting style, go for the Cha based archetype.

Paladin/Antipaladin - It’s a good match if you’ve got the Cha. It stacks really well with Shield Maiden if you want to be a crazy borderline broken bulwark.

Ranger not a terrible route, not a great one either. Better way to grab feats then fighter.

UnRogue or Ninja go with a small race so you can have a wolf flanking companion for fights and get those sweet sweet skill points.

Sorcerer -sorcs are very all or nothing, exception is to get into Dragon Disiple which is an awesome prestige class for you.

Wizard good utility but you’ll mostly cast from wand.

Alchemist -Vivisectionist and mutagens sell me.

Inquisitor -cleric dip is way better.

Magus -One of my friends mixed these two together while partnered with a Swashbuckler. They added a heavy armed spear fighter and a ninja into the mix and get boosted by a Skald. Basically everyone flanks when attacking the same target with a +4 and can trigger and pass crits and 3 of them are crit fishers. It is gross. I’m the GM and call that set up the blender.

Medium -super versatile class but also kind fo a PITA, I wouldn’t make one but do you.

Oracle -Great options with revelations and opens up extra revelation. You can pick an AC and stack them which is another bonus.

Occultist -want to customize bonus powers on your weapons and armor for like 2-3 level dip? Underrated melee class that lacks the BAB.

Summoner -Not for you

Witch -not front loaded in the right way

Arcanist -the fun here is picking up exploits. 

Bloodrager -good alternative to sorc dip for DD

Brawler -the fighter called, he wants his lunch money back. This class is broken because of that flexible feat.

Hunter -ok this can mix really nicely if you want to maximize your TW feats and pets. I’ll revisit this in the build section.

Gunslinger mysterious stranger is a good way to go I’d dip 5 levels to get Dex to damage in there.

Shaman -like  the witch only worse.

Skald -it’s an ok option but I’m not sold for some reason

Swashbuckler -I used to rate this red then I played a grippli one. Best for dex builds.

Warpriest if you’re in this it is likely for sacred weapon meaning you’re in it for 4
levels. There’s a lot to like about warpriest but I’d rather dip 1-3 levels of cleric for the more powerful domain abilities.

Vigilante -such a serious upgrade to fighters or on par with unRogue. They are a little tricky but all their talents are worth 2-3 feats.


Prestige Classes

For this guide I’m going to stick to the ones that seem like they might make sense to a cavalier. If it isn’t called out specifically it is in all likelihood red.


Dragon Disciple -so many nice bits for a cavalier primary… the stat adds being the best part, but also the spells , and the wings, and the breath weapon.

Duelist -lose no BAB and get really good with 1 handed weapons, seems like it’d mix well with daring champion.

Eldritch Knight -lose no BAB but you’re mount is going to suffer and you’re just getting caster stuff in exchange.

Shadow Dancer -would mix well with daring champion but only take 4 levels.

Battle Herald -if you want to make your bard dip pay off a little more there are worse choices.

Celestial Knight -your mount suffers for your gain, might be worth it for some builds but nothing I’m about to present.

Chevalier -lots of the benefits of the paladin dip without the paladin code, or being specific to a deity.

Furious Guardian -if you were determined to make one of those awful guards the other character archetypes work this would be a decent way to finish the concept into something kind of awesome.

Golden Legionnaire -ok so make yourself even more of a team player for not at all painful requirements. Would mix well with a daring champion or something that loses mount in particular.

Grand Marshal -mixes great with your gun archetypes.

Gray Warden -gain judgements and divine caster levels and bonuses to intimidation. Good way to round out a cleric dip and order of cockatrice.

Hell Knight Commander -kind of awesome really.

Hell Knight Enforcer -loses too much

Holy Vindicator -could be worth it but I hate losing mount levels for this.

Inheritor’s Crusader -just be a paladin if you wanted this.

Justicar -sounds like something we’d want, we don’t

Liberator -weird combo that could make a fascinating character… Beast rider from isc + Liberator to make a wild savage that broke from slavery and now takes revenge. You’d be really good at sunder.

 Low Templar -mix a little roguish dirty fighting in with your knight.

Mammoth Rider -no BAB loss and your companion gets better… if you’re not into dungeons and spend most time out in the open this is almost a straight upgrade

Nature Warden can be sooo awesome when combined just right with an oracle or cleric dip and aasamar

Pit Fighter -progresses BAB and gains a few nice dirty tricks and could mix well with a order of cackatrice

Stalwart Defender -mixed with barbarian and dwarf maybe this could be worth it but generally I prefer mobility to standing still and hoping to get attacked

Student of War -could be cool despite losing mount levels, there’s something for the stances and bonus feats.

Swordlord -not a good mix


GM_Solspiral's PAP Guide to the Cavalier: Orders

Cavalier Orders

To evaluate an order we have to consider if the edicts are manageable, the class skills useful, the challenge bonus, and the order abilities. Order abilities that are front loaded at 2nd level are going to weigh much more heavily than the 15th level ability or the class skills. Overall ratings are essentially balanced on Edict, Challenge bonus, and 2nd level order ability the rest is significantly less important.


Order of the Beast (ACG) if you start at 8th level this is green possibly blue.
Edict: predictable and not hard to follow.  Challenge: yeah giving your bonus to your mounts sucks Class Skills: good class skills to have 2nd level ability: garbage, after like 5th level animal enemies never come up 8th level ability: awesome ability that comes late to the party 15th level ability: just not good enough for a 15ht level ability.
Order of the Beast (ISC) in an evil campaign this might be the best choice especially if you are not starting a level 1 but this is hard to pull off with a neutral character so edict is where this gets a little hamstrung.
Edict: really hard to follow in a non-evil campaign.  Challenge: useful to cleave, except what if I don’t pick up cleave this early (likely) 2nd level ability: great when I get something like Improved sunder for free. 8th level ability: freebie trample for my mount, yes please 15th level ability: this is pretty useful except the part where it almost ensures you will get yourself killed.
Order of the Blue Rose so much no in one order.
Edict: pretty much talk first edict makes this one of the more annoying ones  Challenge: reinforces an annoying edict by giving a bonus to an attack roll you likely don’t need Class Skills: two of the worst knowledges 2nd level ability: look at all the not-killing you’re doing 8th level ability: situational DR essentially 15th level ability: good team player ability that would be awesomesauce at 2nd level, here it is almost an insult.
Order of the Cockatrice if it isn’t the best order it is close.
Edict: I hereby dub you the munchkin edict, seriously though you can play this with a degree of subtlety  Challenge: synergizes with your order ability Class Skills: garbage 2nd level ability: free dazzling display with no prerequisites and removes a condition on it, YES! 8th level ability: hang with a crit fisher for maximum carnage 15th level ability: who gets 1 round a day to be completely awesome? You do.
Order of the Dragon plays extremely well with others and with the right team can be awesomesauce.
Edict: Do that thing you were going to do anyway Challenge: I don’t need help hitting with a full BAB class Class Skills: best class ability add ons you can ask for 2nd level ability: great ability for a team player 8th level ability: see 2nd level 15th level ability: near broken level of teamwork.
Order of the First Law want to make Pathfinder cause as many arguments as monopoly, take a cavalier with this, and an evangelist, then have a paladin, and a CE rogue.
Edict: look a mechanic that makes you argue with the healer all the time  Challenge: if your AC is high enough this further elevates your ability to tank Class Skills: you need heal as a class skill because you’re likely to piss off the healer 2nd level ability: here have a +2 on all saves in exchange for never taking a divine buff… yeah that’s a shitty trade 8th level ability: situational but useful in those situations 15th level ability: great for GMs pissed off at their high level clerics.
Order of the Flame one of the better options, especially if you can ramp the damage enough and don’t really get into charging lane issues.
Edict: if you are the party tank this isn’t doing things that differently but it can get you into some trouble so it’s not blue  Challenge: if you can 1 hit things this is essentially an endless challenge, smart players can make this very broken very quickly Class Skills: not bad 2nd level ability: slightly confusing but essentially can get you a immediate move action and not be flatfooted for it to get into position for the next round 8th level ability: extra rider on crits, the problem most things are dead now if you did your job 15th level ability: useful but 1 round with no progression.
Order of the Guard mediocrity except at escort missions. This is a great order for your wizard’s cohort.
Edict: not hard to follow but sort of lame  Challenge: it scales somewhat poorly but it’s always useful thus green Class Skills: best class skill in the game and a crap knowledge 2nd level ability: depressingly mediocre 8th level ability: excel at escort missions 15th level ability: I like Attacks of op but this is a little late.
Order of the Hammer this order adds versatility and fun. It is also super front loaded for those looking for a quick beneficial dip.
Edict: Not a hard thing to do Challenge: eliminate the need for 2 feats Class Skills: not bad 2nd level ability: forces you to get into improved unarmed combat for some reason (not literally but you prolly should) 8th level ability: neat 15th level ability: useful bonus that isn’t just a single use and it buff allies in multiple ways and its a +4!!!.
Order of the Land not a great choice unfortunately.
Edict: not hard to follow makes you act like a hero  Challenge: more damage Class Skills: ok mix 2nd level ability: I loved this so much until it was pointed out that this is a 1/ per combat power then I got depressed 8th level ability: even the ranger is like, that sucks 15th level ability: if this was the power at 8th it would be my go-to order despite how much that 2nd level ability sucks.
Order of the Lion great cohort archetype as if can buff all your friends 3 ways.
Edict: not hard to follow but sort of lame  Challenge: it scales somewhat poorly but it’s always useful thus green Class Skills: boo 2nd level ability: solidly green, makes your allies better, stays green because it doesn’t effect you 8th level ability: see 2nd level only more so 15th level ability: excel at escort missions.
Order of the Paw despite a meh challenge ability this is a solid choice especially because it helps out your mount, blue if starting at 8th level or better.
Edict: painless entry  Challenge: power is meh Class Skills: survival is good 2nd level ability: flexible, multiple uses, strong duration, and doesn’t effect you so green 8th level ability: 2 solid bonuses to upgrade your mount 15th level ability: it’s a damage bonus so it’s not red but a little situational, a common situation but situational none-the-less
Order of the Penitent challenge and order ability sucks so this order sucks
Edict: painless entry  Challenge: power is meh Class Skills: survival is good 2nd level ability: this si not very helpful 8th level ability: look something that is actually good. 15th level ability: this is a murder-hobo game


Order of the Scales really solid 2nd level ability but everything else about this order essentially sucks.
Edict: basically be a lawful character  Challenge: how does it get worse than an attack bonus? make it situational Class Skills: boo 2nd level ability: very decent, effectively gives a bonus to a useful skill and a feat for both you and your mount 8th level ability: situational as heck 15th level ability: very powerful in enforcing contracts which would be great for a side business I guess.


Order of the Seal overshadowed a little by order of the hammer, but a very solid choice nonetheless.
Edict: this can be blue or red depending on what you’re defending  Challenge: eliminates the need for 2 feats Class Skills: decent 2nd level ability: flexible as it applies to attack rolls and saves 8th level ability: I’m not moved by this bonus 15th level ability: Good ability but not great


Order of the Shield might seem like a harsh rating but the 15th level ability sours me that much.
Edict: be a goody two shoes  Challenge: I guess a bonus to attack rolls isn’t so bad if you’re fighting defensively all the time Class Skills: look 2 skill you didn’t want 2nd level ability: oh boy converting small chunks of damage to non lethal 8th level ability: great feat freebie 15th level ability: is there a worse color than red?


Order of the Staff this is a great 2nd character or leadership feat option for spellcasters, it would be a little less exciting as a primary caster.
Edict: makes you every spell caster’s bitch basically  Challenge: this is powerful, for your spellcasting allies Class Skills: useless 2nd level ability: again you’re the caster’s bestie 8th level ability: finally you get something out of this arrangement, you know as long as your caster is giving out a buff 15th level ability: add insult to injury.


Order of the Star solid choice, better with cleric or paladin dips
Edict: depends on the faith in question Challenge: shores up saves Class Skills: survival is good 2nd level ability: flexible and extremely friendly for multiclassing 8th level ability: this si pretty boss if everyone is on the same page faith-wise 15th level ability: really really good since it specifies you


Order of the Sword for mounted builds this is beyond good, its prolly cyan, for everyone else it’s yellow at best.
Edict: be good aligned basically Challenge: situational attack bonus, not red because its a very common situation for you Class Skills: no good 2nd level ability: passive and shores up saves 8th level ability: this is so powerful for mounted builds that it is hard to justify a different order 15th level ability: Upgrades the heck out of your challenge ability


Order of the Tome you suffer until 8th level then you become a 2nd rate backup caster on top of being a decent tank...
Edict: be the uber librarian  Challenge: pretty darn close to useless Class Skills: predictably terrible 2nd level ability: if I wanted to play a wizard or bard... 8th level ability: the only reason to bother with this, but it is a pretty solid reason  15th level ability: solid team friendly power


Order of Vengeance an amazing 8th level ability doesn’t fix the early issues with this one.

Edict: this will cause trouble  Challenge: power is meh Class Skills: no good 2nd level ability: if you wanted an intimate build go cockatrice 8th level ability: this is really a good ability 15th level ability: good ability makes little sense for you though